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Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and Rick Bowers, where personal and professional journeys define the art of scaling with confidence.
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Whether you're a business leader navigating change or someone seeking personal growth, this podcast offers insights and actionable advice to help you thrive.
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Now let's dive into today's conversation with our incredible guest.
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Hi, welcome to Apex GTS Advisors and our podcast, the Confidence Curve.
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My name is Ashley Bowers.
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I'm here with my co-host, rick Bowers.
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Today we have a very special guest.
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We have the founder and CEO, jennifer Kaplan, of Evolve PR and Marketing, so we're super excited to have you on.
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We've known each other for a really long time, so it's great.
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And you two, of course, have the Sun Devil connection, which we'll get into here in a little bit.
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But if we could let's just start off Tell us a little bit about you and about Evolve.
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All right.
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Well, thank you for having me.
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I know we've not had a shortage of conversations in the past, so I'm sure this will flow really well.
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And yes, I love my ASU Sun Devils.
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Yeah, born and raised in Arizona, went to Arizona State, got senior most talkative in high school.
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So I kind of thought that my future might be in PR, although I did want to be a sports agent because I really love sports.
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And then I realized I had to go to law school.
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So I stuck with communications, studied communications with an emphasis in public relations.
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So I did sort of know that would be a path that I would take and at 30, started my business.
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And here I am, just a couple years later now we won't date anything.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So it's been a really fun journey and building the company to now being the largest PR firm in the Valley, but only doing PR.
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So there are full service agencies that do a lot of things and we only do one thing, which is PR.
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So we work to get our client's name out in the media via TV, radio, print, online, influencers, all of that.
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So, and I'm pretty hands-on and involved, but my team is very empowered to manage and be creative and work to be an extension of our client's team.
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Well, you mentioned being the largest firm, and so that was actually kind of where we want to start the conversation.
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The achievement of that has happened in a relatively short time, so that's tremendous growth.
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But take us back to the early days.
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What was it like when you first started and kind of what gave you the confidence to continue, to bring it to the point that it is today?
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So a couple things I would say.
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My mom calls fear the real four letter F word.
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So I do come from a family of entrepreneurs and taking that risk was something I was comfortable uncomfortable with.
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And I did start a firm with a business partner for five years and then I sold my equity to her to go on my own with Evolve and that'll be 15 years.
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And when I left her to go on my own I found this great girl who I'm still friends with to this day and I was like we're going to do this, I'm going to start this firm, you know restart I mean because I'd had the firm and we had a few clients that stayed with us with the firm, but I didn't know what it was going to be, you know kind of bootstraps-ish, and within six months we hired our second person and really felt like at that point I knew I was doing something, that was really who I am and that the networking and the connecting and the passion for helping people build their brand.
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So the two employees were sort of quick and then we sat for a little bit for probably maybe two years and then at that point was seeing some of the cadence and really building our brand, and one of the ways that I was fortunate enough to do some of that was getting involved in the community.
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So, while I promote PR and know the importance of PR for businesses and it's something that we define marketing as at Evolve, which is community outreach and cross-promotional opportunities what other ways can businesses get their name out there other than PR?
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And so I found, when I was building my company, I got involved with an organization called Cystic Fibrosis.
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I didn't know what Cystic Fibrosis was and didn't have any connection to it at that.
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I mean, I'm in my early 30s, but they had a young auxiliary group and they're all up and coming people that are building businesses and wanting to, you know, support each other, and that was a huge catalyst even to this day the relationships and the referrals and the connections.
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I never would have thought that, almost 20 years later, that that like way of networking in the community through charitable outreach and fundraising and getting involved would have such an impact.
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But it did, and so we had a spurt of growth.
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And then you have your zigzags along the way with hiring and staffing, and how do you grow?
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And which way do you grow?
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Being in the service industry, it's just the team and the staff.
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We don't have a widget or something tangible like inventory or an asset.
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The asset is the team.
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Sure, so navigating, you know the chicken before the egg.
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Do you get the clients?
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Do you hire staff?
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And so Liz, who's still with me to this day, who maybe has two clients now because she's in a vice president role and running more, at one point had like I'm almost embarrassed to say like 14 clients, and you can't service 14 clients with what we do.
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So you know, navigating that along the way and just figuring out, you know the growth and trajectory.
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I have to say, this is what I love about us doing these podcasts, because we've known each other.
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For what?
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12 years maybe now?
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Yeah, cause I was at.
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HomeSmart for 10, and that's when we met, um, and I've learned two new things about Jen.
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In the first, like 30 seconds, so one I just have to say real quick and I'll turn it to you for a question.
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But, um, the sports agent side, and which made me think of Mollylly fletcher yeah, I don't know if you've ever heard her speak a female sports agent, and she was kind of known as like the female jerry mcguire in the industry.
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We've had her speak for a couple different companies over the years, but my like newest thing, and I just absolutely love it um, she wrote a book called dynamic drive and there's a whole section in it and then a kind of a book that came out of that called the Energy Clock, and it talks about how you can't, like you need to stop managing your time, basically because time is finite, and that you need to manage your energy, because energy is infinite, and how you schedule your day and making sure that you're buffering energizers around, things that are drainers, and I've been following this now for a few months and it's absolutely amazing.
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And so the sports agent thing hit, and then I think about you and your schedule and all the things you're trying to accomplish.
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It's an amazing book.
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If you have time.
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It's like a one-hour Audible.
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It's really nice.
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Yeah, and what you've shared so far does resonate for me, because I did have a little auto challenge today, if you will, and I just kind of figured I need to get where I need to get, but I can't control certain things, and so I just knew that you know, from the time perspective that as long as I am prepared and show up where I need to show up and don't let people down that I mean I don't know the book, but just kind of what's resonating with today is, you know, there's only so much we can do.
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But there's another aspect of time I know you're talking about with the book too.
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Oh yeah, but it's still.
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Do you have the energy to show up to the next thing, based on how?
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you manage it.
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Yeah, 100%.
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All right, I'm going to look that up.
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Yeah, it's a good one.
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And on Audible she reads it as well, so you hear her tell the story.
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Oh, I like that.
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So it's fun, and we met her when she spoke, so it's like, okay, you need to check this book out because if you focus on your energy, you're going to have more.
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You'll actually feel like you have more time because that energy is there and then you're more productive in that standpoint.
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But I wanted to touch on something that you said.
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You mentioned the uncomfortable times versus the comfortable times, and when people are struggling with confidence, usually it's something that helps us to do something uncomfortable and then, as you're successful with that, that's where the comfort and the confidence comes from.
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So, as you were going through some of those early days, what was maybe one or two of those uncomfortable things that kind of gave you the confidence, because from the outside, looking in, you always look very confident.
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That's a great question.
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And when I've been uncomfortable is totally when I've grown, because I've done something that I didn't want to do or didn't think I could do, and then I did it and I felt so empowered to do, or didn't think I could do, and then I did it and I felt so empowered, you know, because, again, we don't have an asset except for people, which is a huge asset but meaning a tangible product.
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Just being in the service industry, most of the challenges and the uncomfortable situations were dealing with staff, I would say.
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And then, second to that, were client issues, because I want to make sure that everyone's happy and I want everyone to like me.
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So if I can approach it that way, I'll be perfect.
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But that's not always how it works and especially being in my 30s, my early 30s, when I started at 30, I mean, what do I know from certain situations that I had to navigate?
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So I also would say fake it till you make it, and it really put me in a situation to grow up fast and lean on some mentors as well.
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One story that really sticks out and this was 15-ish years ago, but I still carry it with me today we were supposed to do a screening of a movie and there were just some layers of things PR-wise that weren't falling into place.
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And I get on the phone with the client and it was kind of a third-party connection.
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So that person was on the phone with the client and it was kind of a third party connection, so that person was on the phone and I just had I had a perfect reason for all of the things.
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And that person said the most impactful thing to me they don't want any excuses, they're paying us to do a job.
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And I thought I had all these great reasons I don't remember them right now, but it could be.
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You know, I didn't get enough food that day.
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I don't know whatever the reasons are and truly they said I paid you to do a job.
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So I mean basically, like that's your problem.
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Deliver.
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I don't care, and so I realized I'm in a lot of situations since then.
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I never, ever, want to come up with an excuse.
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I either want to lean in to what we've failed or where we fell short or what we could have done better and different, or don't get to that point, just do what you need to do to deliver.
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And so that's been like a really raw lesson that I had and I'm not just chalking it up to being younger or not having the confidence, but that situation really hit me in the face pretty hard, and I try to make sure that we never come up with excuses at Evolve Like we just can't.
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So does it really become part of your culture?
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like we just can't.
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So this, is it really become part of your culture?
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A hundred percent, yeah, I mean, that's definitely like there's, and because of what we do, we have to show results.
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So where's the coverage that we hired you for an end of month report?
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You know where are the deliverables and we can't hide behind that right so it's really important that you know we're ahead of it.
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We've done some things at the company to make sure midway through the month where are we at with this client, so we don't get to the end of the month and then go sorry, we were waiting for you to send us something or you didn't get us what we needed.
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No, what are we doing to be proactive?
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and in those situations, you mentioned people challenges, staff challenges and things like that as well.
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How has your approach to leadership and being connected with the staff changed over the time, going from two employees to over 25 employees?
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Because, following Evolve on Social and things like that, you can really see you have a strong, close-knit team, but to your point, there's no excuses and you're having to deliver results.
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So how's your leadership style changed over the?
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years I've definitely had to release a lot and not be as I wouldn't say I was controlling, like from a micromanagement standpoint, but I've tried to just be, feel like I can empower the team more.
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And it's not the team today, it's just over.
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You know, it's the, the generation of me growing.
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And so empowering is definitely one of them, and letting them navigate things but know they can come to me.
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One thing that sort of maybe hits on what your question is one thing that I make sure my team does not do, and I tell new people when they join do not call me your boss.
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And I think that sets a precedent to I don't see myself as a boss.
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I don't want to like come that word is not something I'm comfortable with.
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I work with Jen.
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Jen owns the company, jen's the CEO, whatever reference to give me.
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You know the level of who.
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I am Right, but I don't like when they use the word boss, and so for me, I feel like that makes me more approachable.
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At least that's like I said, the way I see it.
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So they do know that it's not a scary thing to come to me and share and know that I'm going to support them and be there for them.
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So that's, you know.
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Another thing I want to empower them, but I want them to know that I'm here and they can come to me with anything.
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Yeah, so that's one way of sort of navigating the growth, giving them the empowerment, and that helps me relinquish some of that, and then you know, bringing it down to a level where we can support each other.
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Do you feel like and I probably have talked about this several times on the podcast, but I like to talk about when there's engagement within the organization, you can tell the difference between, like renters and owners.
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And when you create what you've just talked about, you have a staff full of owners, those people that are really engaged, it's like it's their own business and they treat it like they would treat their own home versus a rental person in a rental property, kind of a thing, and so it's just a powerful when you start to see all of that and they buy into the vision and they understand all of those things.
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Yeah, big time.
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That's another thing reflecting on the journey that.
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I've had, and when I look at certain periods of starting out and midway, a lot of turnover and things that we weren't doing to create the connection and the culture and getting people to want to buy in.
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I guess what you know in what you're saying and now I guess in what you're saying and now, knock on wood, so much less turnover.
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And when people are leaving, they're moving out of state or they're maybe changing their career or they're starting a family or something like that, it's not like we need to go down the street to the competitor to find something.
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We need to go down the street to the competitor to find something and so, yeah, that's a growing pain, that can be super challenging.
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But, you know, creating that culture and getting people to feel, I think, the empowerment is part of that, to make them feel a part of it and they're empowered in situations, makes them maybe more feel that they have a stake in you know what they're doing and, yeah, that's that's really important.
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I want people to be with me forever.
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One of the things I loved about our working relationship with Evolve was you know the fact that it's more than just a service that you're providing out there from a PR perspective, but also the education component, media training and things like that.
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And you know in that we talk a lot about.
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You know you have your brands that you're promoting and then you have the reputation that you're building out there.
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Can you talk a little bit for our listeners as they're?
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You know, maybe going over that 50 employee mark or hitting that 100 employee mark and you know kind of the differences.
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It might be a nuance, it might sound just like semantics, but it's really critical that those are really two different things, and one you have a little bit more control over than potentially the other.
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Yeah, so there's a few things there.
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So media training and crisis, and then brand and reputation.
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So, as part of what we do as an extension of the team with these clients are helping with media training and crisis communication, because both are really important in their messaging and their positioning and their posturing, good or bad situations.
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And then that's internally and externally.
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When it comes to the crisis, media training is just a great way to build their confidence when they're in interviews and in presentations.
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Even Brand and reputation, you know, are also internal and external and it could really devastate a business or an organization or it could really elevate them and enhance the allure of that business, and we see that a lot.
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But businesses can come and go really quick.
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So your brand is what you build and create from starting with a logo.
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You know what are the colors, what is your look, what is your feel.
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You know we don't know what a Starbuck is, but they created a brand and that is a brand Even Uber, xerox, over the years.
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You think about these brands that people use to compare Can you Xerox this or can you?
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I'm going to call an Uber, but you're really maybe calling a different ride share.
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So those companies have built a brand, then the reputation is totally different.
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So the reputation is what people think of you.
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Oh, I don't like Starbucks.
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Their coffee is blah blah blah.
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Or I never take Uber, I take Lyft.
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So the reputation is something that businesses.
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It's really hard for them to change reputation Brand as well, but maybe you'll see a brand refresh or do whatever, and it's still Uber.
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But they went from black and white to yellow and white, but you're still going to have that perception.
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And I tell people and clients all the time perception is reality and so it's really hard to change that perception and that reputation that people have of you.
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And the second you wake up and get on a virtual at your house or walk out the door and go to the gym or the grocery store, your reputation is there.
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So the way you look, the way you act, what you say, how you say it, people are creating these perceptions of you and you are representing yourself and your organization.
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Right, and it's so important for the staff right to even know and understanding what they're putting out there, their digital footprint and all I mean it's just the education is valuable for the organization and what they're trying to achieve and you're really doing a service to that team too for their futures, Because a lot of times just depending on for first getting in, it's like, well, my social is my social, and it's like but it's not, it is your digital footprint, whether you want it to be or not.
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Yeah.
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I see.
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A lot of people that are in.
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Well, celebrities do this.
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Media people do this.
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They'll create a separate social media page that's not their real name, that they want to curate whatever content to people that they just want to have see it.
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Or now, on social media, you can actually just have your regular page and then there's certain content, so you don't need to create a second one with a pseudonym or another name, but there's certain posts that you can share that only certain people will see.
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Your small groups.
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Right because they know.
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They know that to the masses it's not the greatest thing to put out there.
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But when I'm not just putting kids down, but high school graduates, college graduates, to be thinking about where they might rush for a sorority, fraternity or do an internship or look for a job, those employers or people that are looking at them will probably go to the social and look and get a perception of what they put out there.
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So yeah, the digital footprint is and it's technically forever.
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I mean, yes, you can take down a page or block a page, you know your own page, but I mean the Internet's forever.
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It's really hard to work around that.
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We talked a lot about your team and how awesome the team is and how well you get along in the culture and those kinds of things, which kind of builds that employee brand as well.
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So you have the company brand but there's an employee brand.
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Some companies struggle with that and then they also struggle to hire new people because that reputation gets out there of kind of what it is, what's it like to work for this company.
00:22:01.809 --> 00:22:08.366
So have you worked with organizations to try to fix the employee brand side of things from a PR standpoint?
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Yeah, I mean, my big thing with that is it has to seem authentic and if it feels like they're fixing or overcompensating to do something because they know they need to, people sometimes see right through that and so I feel like it's got to be so real and even if it's not, but it's got to feel that way, or else we're in another damage control situation as well, like the overcorrecting.
00:22:36.729 --> 00:22:46.102
So you know, doing things to build the team together and not just feel like you're going through some motion just because you need to.
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And it is hard.
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I mean, you've got people of different ages and backgrounds and you know this one's married, this one's not.
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This one, you know, went to the same school as maybe a coworker and this one didn't.
00:23:00.163 --> 00:23:07.125
So you've got to make everyone feel so inclusive and it's something we talk about at Evolve all the time.
00:23:07.125 --> 00:23:11.026
It is a crazy, crazy gift.
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I don't know how this got built.
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And it's all them.
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And, of course, what I can try to do.
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But it's so special when your team can support each other and back each other up and have each other's back, and I think it's so special.
00:23:28.882 --> 00:23:35.728
I say at Evolve I don't want to work in an environment that has drama and dynamics and stuff.
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So I don't want to create an environment that is that way, because I don't want to work at that place.
00:23:40.386 --> 00:23:48.242
So you know, finding that formula is important but it can be very challenging, you know, for organizations to get over that hump.
00:23:48.242 --> 00:23:53.460
But you know, I think doing it with authenticity and culture is really.
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I mean, the people should be first, absolutely.
00:23:57.007 --> 00:23:57.508
It really should be.
00:23:57.508 --> 00:23:59.636
I agree with what you said.
00:23:59.636 --> 00:24:03.862
It's not a fix, it's kind of a nurture or a rebuild.
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It really starts with the leadership and them connecting with the people.
00:24:13.414 --> 00:24:18.412
And it's so much more challenging now for companies that haven't gone back to either working in their office or they've gone back even very limited.
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You have to work even harder for those connections and the culture, because it's not monday through friday anymore.
00:24:26.040 --> 00:24:30.337
I mean businesses are, I don't mean that it's zero, but it's not in the office.
00:24:30.337 --> 00:24:38.144
But it's changed so much, and so you've got to work harder on that well, you know and forever you know we.
00:24:38.183 --> 00:24:38.724
What's the saying?
00:24:38.724 --> 00:24:49.303
You don't leave companies, you leave you know bosses and and stuff, and so that connectivity with connectivity with your coworkers is what kept you kind of through some of the hard times, cause every company goes through some bumps and bruises.
00:24:49.303 --> 00:24:55.135
I always used to say, like it's not all rainbows and butterflies all the time, but it's also not all doom and gloom all the time either.
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Right, like we have our ups and downs and that connectivity keeps you through those downs.
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Right, I mean, it's just like in personal relationships and without that now I feel like sometimes employees are a little bit faster to give up on it and maybe look at the next opportunity.
00:25:12.061 --> 00:25:13.886
So it's keeping it so important.
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I also think, doing something you're super passionate about and obviously you guys help.
00:25:18.246 --> 00:25:21.804
You know so many different organizations and different products and different services.
00:25:21.804 --> 00:25:34.942
Is there any like project that comes to mind that was a super passion project for you that, like you and or your whole team, just got so excited over what it was that you were able to be a part of from a client perspective that you can share?
00:25:35.423 --> 00:25:42.305
yeah, and this one is an easy answer, and it also got the media super excited as well.
00:25:43.106 --> 00:25:51.155
Sprinkles cupcakes oh so they came here to the valley and they were this beverly hills brand and oprah, you know, had them on their show.
00:25:51.155 --> 00:26:28.299
I mean, this is dating way back and they came here to the valley and we had the opportunity to work with them and we were with them for nine years and Candice Nelson, who founded Sprinkles, was on Cupcake Wars and doing all this stuff on the Food Network, our food channel, and we had her here locally on the cover of magazines and we're bringing cupcakes to all the TV stations and I mean we would joke that we were like had the back door to all these, you know, media people and it was such a big part in the growth of my career, more so on the media side because every month I was bringing cupcakes, they looked forward to it.
00:26:28.299 --> 00:26:34.138
I let them know I was coming, they would open the back door, and so it was.
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Really it was a fun product and I love sweets and sugar.
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So I was excited to do meetings with them.
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I would eat and you probably know some of my idiosyncrasies with food and health and all that I would eat three cupcakes in a meeting.
00:26:50.023 --> 00:26:58.234
Then I narrowed it down to two and a frosting shot, because they would give you shots of frosting and I would go to the back door of Sprinkles.
00:26:58.234 --> 00:27:03.523
They had the graveyard, which is where the cupcakes that didn't look presentable for the front.
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So there were these racks of the cupcakes that were on the graveyard and I would go to the back door.
00:27:08.201 --> 00:27:12.286
I mean I was like so personally, professionally, and it was so fun.
00:27:12.286 --> 00:27:18.070
You know it was the Valentine's cupcake or the St Patty's cupcake or the holiday cupcake.
00:27:18.070 --> 00:27:20.117
Yeah, and I learned a lot.
00:27:20.117 --> 00:27:28.665
It really those nine years were more the beginning of Evolve and it helped me grow up a lot and learn a lot.
00:27:28.665 --> 00:27:34.699
They had a lot of standards and brand standards and just different things.
00:27:34.699 --> 00:27:38.488
That helped me mature and grow as a PR person too, that's amazing.
00:27:39.076 --> 00:27:57.624
So when we talked earlier this week, we talked a little bit about external communication versus internal communication and just understanding what information is critical to get out early versus what should wait till a certain point, because maybe certain times product releases and you don't want leaks or things like that.
00:27:57.624 --> 00:28:07.564
So how do you help people with that internal communication or what message would you have about internal communication?
