Sept. 25, 2025
How Ashley & Rick Bowers Turned Setbacks Into a “Confidence Curve”
In this episode of The Confidence Curve, Ashley and Rick Bowers open up about their journey from corporate careers to entrepreneurial success and how their complementary strengths have powered both their business and personal partnership for more than 20 years.
From Rick’s early days duplicating assessment diskettes at TTI Success Insights to Ashley’s childhood passion for organization, their story reveals how curiosity, strategy, and stepping into discomfort built the foundation for Apex GTS. They candidly discuss pivotal career moments, including Ashley’s vulnerable reflection on what she once saw as her biggest professional setback, and how that experience reshaped her outlook on growth and resilience.
Whether you’re leading a team, launching a venture, or simply looking for authentic stories about leadership and perseverance, this episode offers practical wisdom and inspiration to help you grow and succeed.
00:00 - Introduction to the Confidence Curve
01:00 - Early Career Beginnings
08:30 - Building Confidence Through Challenges
16:40 - The Birth of Apex GTS
22:10 - Leadership Lessons and Book Influences
31:30 - Confronting Failure and Moving Forward
39:00 - Authentic Leadership Advice
46:45 - Episode Closing and Key Takeaways
WEBVTT
00:00:02.185 --> 00:00:11.231
Welcome to the Confidence Curve with Ashley and Rick Bowers, where personal and professional journeys define the art of scaling with confidence.
00:00:11.231 --> 00:00:21.611
Whether you're a business leader navigating change or someone seeking personal growth, this podcast offers insights and actionable advice to help you thrive.
00:00:21.611 --> 00:00:26.551
Now let's dive into today's conversation with our incredible guest.
00:00:29.861 --> 00:00:31.044
Welcome to the Confidence Curve.
00:00:31.044 --> 00:00:35.561
My name is Ashley Bowers and I'm here with my co-host and husband, Rick Bowers.
00:00:35.561 --> 00:00:38.874
Today's episode is going to be a little different.
00:00:38.874 --> 00:01:00.722
We decided to take a moment and turn the mics on ourselves, talk a little bit about how we got here, why we got here and some of the lessons that we've learned in leadership in life, in working together and being entrepreneurs over, you know, the last 20 plus years that we've been on this journey in one capacity or another.
00:01:00.722 --> 00:01:06.275
So welcome to today's show and we hope you enjoy so kind of.
00:01:06.296 --> 00:01:08.462
You know, when we think about how we got started.
00:01:08.462 --> 00:01:15.483
You were working at TTI, Success Insights, and which back then was TTI Performance Systems.
00:01:15.483 --> 00:01:16.944
I think if we're really dating ourselves.
00:01:16.944 --> 00:01:20.953
I started at TTI as a receptionist.
00:01:20.953 --> 00:01:44.611
I think from interview one, you and I could kind of talk about anything and everything and that definitely created an amazing professional relationship which eventually bloomed into, obviously, our personal relationship and, I think, probably keeps us very strong and grounded still to this day and something that people look for in all of their relationships, whether they're business or personal.
00:01:44.611 --> 00:02:01.337
You know, thinking back to those days and why don't you kind of share a little bit with our audience about how you got started at TTI and what you were doing and kind of what brought you out to Arizona from Iowa and give a little bit of a back story.
00:02:02.578 --> 00:02:39.469
Yeah, I mean, when I think about kind of everything that you set up there and in the early days at TTI and and kind of what led to that, it really goes back to being from Iowa and the Iowa roots and how you kind of just do what's necessary kind of a thing, and and from a very early age, like I think I started mowing grass and and that kind of stuff in second or third grade and um, that led to, like delivering newspapers and, um, working on the farm, to all the different jobs that I had back there.
00:02:39.469 --> 00:02:54.403
That just kind of was like if something needed to be done, you did it, and it was that building of respect for for whoever was the leader at the time, and so that really kind of built, I think, something that isn't there anymore.
00:02:54.403 --> 00:03:01.546
Um, and I think the other thing that I was thinking about with this question is there wasn't an internet back then.
00:03:01.546 --> 00:03:19.271
You couldn't go and watch a youtube video, so like if you needed to figure something out, you had to figure something out on your own or go find somebody that knew how to do it or experiment, and so I think that kind of built a lot of the background to kind of what I'm about, what Apex is about.
00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:26.687
Kind of what you and I, because you started a little bit different than I did, but a similar path, I guess.
00:03:26.687 --> 00:03:34.449
Coming down from Iowa to go to Arizona State and ran into the owner of TTI.
00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:36.824
He knew my dad.
00:03:36.824 --> 00:03:42.629
They needed somebody part-time, so I started part-time going to ASU back in 1988.
00:03:42.629 --> 00:03:46.145
Fast forward 33 years later.
00:03:46.145 --> 00:03:52.389
It was time for a new transition and six months after that Apex was born.
00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:59.245
Well, it's interesting because, like when you first started right, it was doing whatever needed to be done and you kind of alluded to that Back then.
00:03:59.245 --> 00:04:15.932
You know, assessments were delivered on diskettes, like floppy disks and disks and and duplicating those and printing flyers and shipping things out, and then just slowly learn the business, learn the aspects you know through time and then obviously went up that ladder, you know, with Inside TTI.
00:04:15.932 --> 00:04:23.302
I think back to my upbringing and, although not Midwest, being, you know, born and raised here in Arizona.
00:04:23.343 --> 00:04:34.444
My grandfather my, you know my dad, like all my uncles, you know, born and raised here in Arizona, my grandfather my, you know my dad, like all my uncles, you know all in commercial construction, very hard work, and you know very significant work.
00:04:34.444 --> 00:04:38.613
Along with that, my grandparents owned beauty supplies.
00:04:38.613 --> 00:04:53.653
So this was before you had Ulta and Sephora and all these big box you know supply chains for beauty products, long before the internet, obviously, and so we had about 13 beauty supplies around the valley.
00:04:53.653 --> 00:05:21.721
And you know, growing up I would go to the work with my mom when before I was in school and now I hear the stories my aunt would be doing the books and I was three years old, sitting on the floor and separating out the visa, mastercard and Amex receipts and that was like the old carbon copy thing and my aunt would say Ashley, you know, hand me the visas and I would hand her the pile.
00:05:21.781 --> 00:05:38.605
That started with fours and I was three or four years old, you know, and sitting on the laps of reps that were selling us product and just being in the conversation and I know we've carried that on with our kids, taking them to business trips and just inviting them to the environment.
00:05:38.605 --> 00:06:02.504
I think and I think that that's so much of what has shaped who you are and who I am is we've always been in and around and trying to maximize what we're bringing to the environment, that we're in um, and what it can teach us and what we can take on to the next thing that we do, which definitely was a secret of success to us while we were at TTI.
00:06:02.524 --> 00:06:20.391
Yeah, and think I'm not sure where it comes from, but it turned into one of our core values the childlike curiosity which is, I guess, my favorite of our core values as well, and it's just that curiosity of how things work.
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:26.744
I would get in trouble as a little kid for taking things apart but I wanted to see what was inside them and that kind of stuff.
00:06:26.744 --> 00:06:29.449
And and I it's still today.
00:06:29.449 --> 00:06:48.586
I think that's something that makes apex special is our abilities to be able to see the things that other people don't see, to pick up on the details, to pick up on the little things and then kind of dig into it, ask the questions, that kind of get it at a different level.
00:06:48.586 --> 00:07:02.651
And then my favorite thing with with whether it's coaching or working with a group of people, it's listening to what their answer is, because there's so much value in the words that people say and they don't even realize it when they say it.
00:07:02.651 --> 00:07:08.771
So that curiosity, I think, just plays out over and over, and I'm sure you're tired of it.
00:07:08.771 --> 00:07:09.894
It's like I'll say something.
00:07:09.894 --> 00:07:13.067
It's like did you notice that on the commercials or did you notice this in the show?
00:07:13.067 --> 00:07:18.110
It doesn't connect and it's like it just pick up on things that I don't think a lot of people pick up on.
00:07:18.630 --> 00:07:25.288
I think it's interesting, though, because you come from the place of, like how do I take it apart and see how all of it works and what's ticking?
00:07:25.288 --> 00:07:38.367
And then you know, instead of playing with paper dolls, I built org charts and built companies in my room as a little kid and like to see, like, how can you structure it back together in the right way to maximize that efficiency?
00:07:38.367 --> 00:07:41.519
You know, um, which is interesting Our poor children.
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.745
They listen to us talk and this is what we talk about, but we love it.
00:07:46.286 --> 00:07:51.254
I think each of us can point back to a pivot that was.
00:07:51.254 --> 00:07:52.922
You know, that happened in our career.
00:07:52.922 --> 00:07:56.913
That maybe really changed the trajectory of where we went.
00:07:56.913 --> 00:08:07.923
And when I look at your career within TTI, one of the things that comes to mind was when you were kind of sectioned off to go and lead and build the international division.
00:08:07.923 --> 00:08:32.729
You know, being an entrepreneurial founder-led company, sometimes, you know, when you're an employee in that, you feel like you can't break a ceiling or move forward or you're never really going to get to that next step, and with that can be lost learning opportunity, because that person is there, and I feel like that was really pivotal for you to go and build something else to later come back and be the president of the whole thing.
00:08:32.729 --> 00:08:42.885
Can you talk a little bit about, maybe, the fear of like wait, you know, am I being put over here what's happening, why this change and then how it really helped your career in the long run?
00:08:43.847 --> 00:08:54.712
Yeah, it was an interesting time because it was a little bit of uncertainty with what's this going to look like dealing with people in other countries.
00:08:54.712 --> 00:08:57.445
Sometimes there's language barriers, there's all of these things.
00:08:57.445 --> 00:09:16.248
But as it kind of started to play out and working with the international group and kind of understanding who they are and that things work just about the same internationally as they do in the US, and so that was kind of that comfort piece.
00:09:16.248 --> 00:09:35.652
And and then there's the confidence, because confidence comes from working through an uncomfortable situation and so I feel like I've gone through a lot of those kind of uncomfortable situations and whether that was intentional by by Bill, the owner of TTI, or if it was just coincidence, it worked out.
00:09:35.652 --> 00:09:44.754
But I think learning from people that have done certain things has been a key.
00:09:44.754 --> 00:09:50.802
People that have done certain things has been a key.
00:09:50.822 --> 00:09:55.110
And, uh, dave brought in another person on the team that was a kind of self-proclaimed problem solver rolando.
00:09:55.110 --> 00:10:25.350
And the thing I think really made a difference for me was the deming stuff, the fourth generation management, and seeing what that can do and putting a name to the processes and the things that were just in in our minds maybe, um, kind of helped to be a little bit more structured and and how you do it and realizing the thing, simple things like uh right things done right the first time, and that kind of stuff made a difference.
00:10:25.350 --> 00:10:51.735
And being able to then start traveling the world and seeing the different cultures and seeing how businesses worked from all over the world was, I think, a big part of the leadership development for me and and then learning from mistakes and we all made mistakes along the way and didn't really have a clear path of where we were going and kind of built it as we were going.
00:10:51.735 --> 00:10:54.663
It's, I think, flying or building the airplane as we fly.
00:10:54.743 --> 00:11:04.224
It is something that's pretty natural, I guess, for for me, you know it's funny, you mentioned the thing that builds the confidence.
00:11:04.224 --> 00:11:17.833
When I was first thinking about the career pivot topic, immediately I went to collectively the switch for me to go from TTI to HomeSmart.
00:11:18.355 --> 00:11:35.331
But as you mentioned the confidence piece, I think that was the first step, you know, after leaving TTI and you know, wanting to start consulting back then and doing things different, and had the opportunity to meet the founder of HomeSmart and join that organization as the chief operating officer.
00:11:35.331 --> 00:11:55.293
It was really about can I take everything that I've learned through in essence, like in the classroom at TTI, about how companies should operate you know there was some interaction with clients, but most of our work was with consultants and such and can I apply this and implement change and affect change and do the right things?
00:11:55.293 --> 00:11:57.544
And so that was kind of a confidence building piece.
00:11:57.544 --> 00:12:10.349
But a few years in I had that feeling of okay, box is checked, I did what I was asked to do, so much so that even at the end of strategic planning I like kind of put a bow on it and handed it to the CEO.
00:12:10.349 --> 00:12:11.783
I'm like this is what you asked me to do.
00:12:11.783 --> 00:12:13.529
You have it Like now what?
00:12:15.581 --> 00:12:22.109
And you know and and actually started, you know, working with TTI a little bit again and consulting with HomeSmart.
00:12:22.109 --> 00:12:26.205
At that time I think that big pivot for me.
00:12:26.205 --> 00:12:32.061
That really created a calmness.
00:12:32.061 --> 00:12:37.155
Now We'll probably talk about this as my biggest failure later no promise on no tears.
00:12:37.155 --> 00:12:51.783
But when I was you know, when we were being sat down and when we were at dinner with the founder of HomeSmart and he was like, come back full time and take it public and I was like I don't know how to do that.
00:12:51.783 --> 00:12:53.355
Right, I mean, that was my first answer and I was like I don't know how to do that.
00:12:54.211 --> 00:12:55.455
Right, I mean, that was my first answer.
00:12:56.076 --> 00:13:00.798
And I was like I'm really great at hiring, let me build you a team and that knows what they're doing.
00:13:00.798 --> 00:13:06.634
And he's like no, hire yourself a team and do this.
00:13:06.634 --> 00:13:09.679
And it was a five to seven year plan.
00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:11.202
Okay, we've got time.
00:13:11.202 --> 00:13:12.272
You know, fast forward.
00:13:12.272 --> 00:13:16.541
Nine months later, we're talking to investors and we're going on the path.
00:13:16.541 --> 00:13:23.615
And when I say I knew nothing about doing it, I knew less than nothing about doing it.
00:13:23.615 --> 00:13:30.153
And you know, no, it was not an option and we were going to, you know, figure it out.
00:13:30.153 --> 00:13:45.721
And I think I share that, because there's so many times in our careers where we're faced with something, whether it's entrepreneurship, whether it's the next step, whether it's a leadership challenge where we have no idea what to do.
00:13:45.721 --> 00:13:50.456
And that's okay, sitting in, that is not okay, right?
00:13:50.456 --> 00:13:51.798
So then, like, what are your next steps?
00:13:51.798 --> 00:13:52.782
Who are your resources?
00:13:52.782 --> 00:13:53.533
How do you reach out?
00:13:53.533 --> 00:13:55.162
How can you learn, learn, how can you grow?
00:13:55.162 --> 00:13:56.649
How can you lean into other people?
00:13:57.932 --> 00:14:08.451
and be okay with making some mistakes, be okay with owning the fact that you don't know what you're doing yeah and so can we go through this together, you know, and not having to be the smartest person in the room, right?
00:14:08.451 --> 00:14:18.533
Um, and I think that that has now taught me that it doesn't really matter what we're in front of, like, just figure it out, like you.
00:14:18.533 --> 00:14:23.423
You can, no matter how difficult, you can definitely figure things out.
00:14:23.423 --> 00:14:23.610
Now.
00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:38.086
I got a wild education through that two year process and, you know, have some depth in a lot of areas now and have some depth in a lot of areas now, but there's still a lot of areas it's like well, I don't know, but we'll find a way to get to.
00:14:38.086 --> 00:14:42.214
Yes, let me just figure out what that path looks like.
00:14:42.234 --> 00:14:48.360
I use the example or the analogy sometimes with teammates, right, a lot of places we go on a daily basis.
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.496
We know how to get there, we know the path that we're supposed to take.
00:14:51.496 --> 00:14:56.357
I still put in ways just to see is there a detour?
00:14:56.357 --> 00:14:56.899
Is there this?
00:14:56.899 --> 00:14:57.942
Is there a faster way?
00:14:57.942 --> 00:15:29.153
Because there's often so many different ways to get to the goal, and just because we see the path that is the most consistent, the most straight line, doesn't mean that the straight line is actually going to get us there the fastest way, because we could have bigger roadblocks in that and and I think that that's important when we're looking at our careers, when we're looking at things that we're being faced with in organizations, um, and just how we go about life, I mean we talk about it with our life planning, that we do personally, you know I think it's.
00:15:29.274 --> 00:15:41.558
It's interesting because what you're just talking about with putting things into Waze or the Google Maps to figure out, even though we've been there every day, I do the same thing because I go to one client quite often, but it's like should I go to the 101 or the 51?
00:15:41.558 --> 00:15:46.361
And it's about being there and making sure you're on time and all of those things.
00:15:46.361 --> 00:15:52.342
But prior to Apex, we lived in a few different places in the Valley.
00:15:52.342 --> 00:15:58.841
Apex, we lived in a few different places in the valley and tti, for the most part, was in the same location for the entire 30 plus years that I was there.
00:15:58.961 --> 00:16:19.971
In 17 years, you were there within a few miles of different offices and things, and I would figure out new ways to go to the office because I would get bored driving the same way to the office every day, and so I think that's one of the one of the areas when you look at our behavior, behavioral styles and our driving forces that that's one that's a little bit different.
00:16:19.971 --> 00:16:36.167
You, you focus a little bit more on the structure of things and and the efficiency of things, and that's one where it's like I need something new, I need to do it a different way to get there too, so very interesting from that standpoint.
00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:40.442
So let's talk a little bit about kind of the transition to Apex.
00:16:40.442 --> 00:16:43.558
So obviously we started Apex in 22.
00:16:43.558 --> 00:16:46.620
You had transitioned out of TTI at the end of 21.
00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:58.365
And you know, going into that transition mid-2022, I was going crazy, you know, on a path to try to take an organization public.
00:16:58.365 --> 00:17:09.344
Lots of hours, lots of things happening and we really kind of figured out, I think holistically for us, what 100% is.
00:17:09.730 --> 00:17:12.479
And you know we get asked that question by friends and colleagues.
00:17:12.479 --> 00:17:17.153
You know, how do you work together, how do you have two people that are driving these different things and doing all these?
00:17:17.153 --> 00:17:24.920
You know all these different initiatives and obviously have a very strong personality and like, like, how does it all work?
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:35.023
And even just most recently in our last conversation, just on our planning, you know it's not 50-50 all the time on everything right.
00:17:35.023 --> 00:17:42.320
And I think the difference with us is we look at our life as 100% and that's what we do outside of the home and what we do inside of the home.
00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:47.921
And on any given week, day, month, year, what split are?
00:17:47.921 --> 00:17:55.423
We each kind of feel like we have to cover that pie and we're just going to cover it together and I think that that's a lot of the foundation that we brought into.
00:17:55.423 --> 00:17:58.413
Why Apex and why?
00:17:58.413 --> 00:18:01.501
To start to do something on our own and to do something different.
00:18:01.501 --> 00:18:09.304
But why don't you talk a little bit about that creation and your thought process in naming Apex?
00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:37.039
because it was definitely a brainchild that you had, but also like what you wanted it to create for us yeah, I think when that transition happened and I decided it was time to do something different from the TTI standpoint and kind of looking at my accomplishments in life I guess is one way to say it what could I do next?
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:56.461
And there was a lot of different ideas in this and that, but really I had been working with consultants, learning from consultants, training consultants on how to use the assessments and the tools in their businesses and things, and that was just kind of turned into a natural transition.
00:18:56.461 --> 00:19:12.862
And so as I started kind of thinking about, okay, what would a name look like, what would the business have in terms of services or products or those kinds of things and obviously the name is kind of an interesting process that I went through as well.
00:19:12.862 --> 00:19:17.821
But kind of going through, where does the name come from?
00:19:17.821 --> 00:19:34.105
And I'm a car guy, for those of you that know me, and so I always kind of like the GTS stamp letters and so Grand Touring Sport from a car standpoint, from an Apex standpoint, it's grow and succeed the things we want to help our clients do.
00:19:34.105 --> 00:19:53.140
So then it was like, okay, well, I know I want GTS, what's the word that goes in front of it, and so that was kind of all over the place and growing up in the 70s and 80s and like Acme from Roadrunner and Coyote living in Arizona Roadrunner and Coyote it was kind of like well, maybe Acme.
00:19:53.140 --> 00:20:00.881
So they started looking at that word and acme and apex were very similar and so apex seemed a little more appropriate.
00:20:00.881 --> 00:20:10.955
It does have a car connection because the apex of a corner the fastest way to get through the corner, um, so there was all of those connections and so it turned into apex, gts advisors from from that standpoint.
00:20:12.157 --> 00:20:36.534
But then transitioning through the business, it was like communication was always an issue, and one of the things that I would see in certain situations is sitting around a conference table in a meeting and there were certain people that talked all the time and certain people that were kind of quiet but you could see on their face that they had something to say and a lot of times they just don't say it.
00:20:36.534 --> 00:20:40.482
And so how do you put something together to help people communicate?
00:20:40.482 --> 00:20:47.348
How do you put something together to put comfort there, create that safe zone of communication?
00:20:47.348 --> 00:21:04.207
Because some of the greatest ideas that ever came out of the TTI boardroom, so to speak, were when we had a knock down, drag out argument over what we wanted to accomplish, because we walked in there with 16 different ideas and we came out with one and then we drove that one forward.
00:21:04.207 --> 00:21:24.335
But we were really kind of working through the five dysfunctions of a team and kind of having that trust in each other to build the, to have that constructive conflict and then have the buy-in to drive the idea forward, the peer accountability and achieving the results.
00:21:24.335 --> 00:21:28.237
So some of those things we were actually doing didn't realize the model at the time.
00:21:28.237 --> 00:21:33.662
Now it's one of my favorite models that I talk about quite often and from there it just kind of my favorite models that I talk about quite often.
00:21:33.662 --> 00:21:38.000
But um, and from there it just kind of turned into what it is today.
00:21:38.101 --> 00:21:58.138
I didn't think I would ever be excited about being a leadership coach or an executive coach, but it's one of my favorite parts of the, of the whole process and and going back to the, the driving forces, I always kind of played off of the more commanding and resourceful, being in charge and making a lot of money.
00:21:58.138 --> 00:22:08.772
But what I've found is I'm really driven by the intentional, which is about helping people that want to get better, so the people that have that drive to get better and they don't quite know how to get there.
00:22:08.772 --> 00:22:18.719
And doing that really is is something that's really fueled my passion for, for the apex business and and things that that I do on a daily basis.
00:22:18.719 --> 00:22:22.833
Your side of the business is a little bit different.
00:22:22.833 --> 00:22:31.215
You're not as excited about the people side, but talk a little bit about maybe you started with the, the org charts as a kid and that kind of stuff.
00:22:31.215 --> 00:22:40.461
So how does that lead into your working the strategy, building the strategies and doing the things that you like to do in Apex?
00:22:40.970 --> 00:22:51.544
Yeah, you know, I just love to see the lights go on I think is probably the most simplistic way to say it and I love to empower people, to see the part that they play in a bigger vision.
00:22:51.544 --> 00:23:04.259
And I think that people are most successful when they understand what it is, that they're there to contribute, how their performance is going to be measured and kind of what they're going to gain out of that.
00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:05.301
What are those rewards?
00:23:05.301 --> 00:23:20.530
And I feel like doing things like stages of growth and strategic planning and execution planning and providing that communication and that forum and that scalability to individuals in an organization just creates a voltage inside a company.
00:23:20.530 --> 00:23:21.614
That is outrageous.
00:23:21.614 --> 00:23:24.539
And and then you have your people.
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.493
We're like, okay, that person needs a little bit of tweaking here and there.
00:23:27.493 --> 00:23:30.029
Like get them a coach, have them go through assessments, do that.
00:23:30.029 --> 00:23:40.923
But you really see what people are made of and what they want to do when they have a plan in front of them and they can see themselves, they see themselves as a player in the game, right.
00:23:40.923 --> 00:23:47.342
And it's like how do you get everybody on the field when they should be on the field in the right spot, going the right direction at the right time?
00:23:47.342 --> 00:23:49.913
And I feel like that's what strategy does.
00:23:50.375 --> 00:23:59.323
I'm a full believer that people show up to do a great job every single day, that we don't try to go out to work to fail or make mistakes or be miserable.
00:23:59.323 --> 00:24:08.175
We've got to have them in the right spot and we have to have the right amount of information around them so that they can be successful and they can do the right things and they can ask the right questions.
00:24:08.175 --> 00:24:22.023
And then for me, it's very easy then to invest in those people, to develop them, because you're seeing what they're putting into it and you know I and potential is weird, right.
00:24:22.023 --> 00:24:26.388
So you might see someone that has a ton of potential, but maybe it's not what they want, you know.
00:24:26.388 --> 00:24:32.525
Maybe they don't want to work the 70 hours a week, maybe they want to have a different definition of balance for themselves, and you know that's okay.
00:24:32.525 --> 00:24:34.384
Maybe they don't want to have a different definition of balance for themselves, and you know that's okay.
00:24:34.384 --> 00:24:36.268
Maybe they don't want to manage others, you know.
00:24:36.688 --> 00:24:40.295
And so, really understanding, what does this person want?
00:24:40.295 --> 00:24:44.763
How does that fit into the bigger game that you're playing in business?
00:24:44.763 --> 00:24:55.500
Right, teach them all the rules, show them the goal line and then get out of their way, remove the obstacles, provide the resources you know and let them go.
00:24:55.500 --> 00:25:01.942
And I think that that's just really powerful when you can see that all come together and create that alignment, you know.
00:25:01.961 --> 00:25:23.060
And then you go in on quarterly check-ins and you're like, yeah, done, done, done, because everyone knew the game plan, they had a playbook, they knew how to operate and it just really allows you to have healthy, sustainable, scalable growth, which then you can do so much more for your people and you can pay them more and you can do more benefits and you can give back to charity and you can, you know, make a bigger impact.
00:25:23.060 --> 00:25:29.853
So it just cascades all of that across the organization and ultimately the community, which I think is pretty powerful.
00:25:29.853 --> 00:25:34.522
When you think about we do a lot of reading in our world.
00:25:34.522 --> 00:25:41.660
Okay, what is a book that you really think maybe has changed your perspective since you have been leading Apex?
00:25:44.010 --> 00:25:47.837
That's tough because there are so many of them and there are so many bits and pieces.
00:25:47.837 --> 00:25:53.109
And driving from client to client, I listen to a lot of books.
00:25:53.109 --> 00:26:07.660
I think I have 48 of them currently on my Audible library a few that I haven't got to yet, a few that I've listened to more than once From a peer leadership standpoint.
00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:16.861
I think how to Lead when You're Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins was one of the biggest ones that I've taken so much stuff from.
00:26:18.913 --> 00:26:30.678
Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Lindsay Yoni is another one that I quote quite often and, believe it or not, I really got into the Covey stuff and I didn't ever read that.
00:26:30.678 --> 00:26:41.951
I always say that the two things that if I could go back and tell my teenage self something which I probably wouldn't have listened anyway, knowing teenagers.
00:26:41.951 --> 00:26:49.391
But, um, I didn't pay attention in typing class because I thought I will never type in the rest of my life, why do I need typing class?
00:26:49.391 --> 00:26:59.400
And now I type every day and I wish I would have read more, and so, like the 30 plus years at TTI, I didn't read that many books.
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:07.686
There was a few, but since leaving TTI and starting Apex, it's like not quite a book a week, but getting close.
00:27:08.047 --> 00:27:08.227
Yeah.
00:27:08.650 --> 00:27:18.502
And so it really makes such a difference because there are so many nuggets in the books that come up in a coaching process or a conversation with a client.
00:27:18.502 --> 00:27:35.852
And then I love to just kind of take the ideas of this concept, what they're talking about, and it's like how can I build like a one page, one pager that I can share with several people on how to apply the things that we just were talking about?
00:27:35.852 --> 00:27:38.137
And so that's been fun from that standpoint.
00:27:38.137 --> 00:27:49.215
So if I had to narrow it down, it'd be those um, I know your answer will probably be something around the the andy andrews stuff so I knew that's what you were gonna think um.
00:27:49.395 --> 00:28:03.994
But just to finish that thought and tie it back to TTI a little bit, we always laughed whenever Bill Bonstead or the owner of TTI would say doing something's better than nothing, and it was like never made sense.
00:28:03.994 --> 00:28:07.842
But now in a couple of those books, do something?
00:28:07.842 --> 00:28:13.240
Is the answer yes, and it's like it was in a conversation with a client today.
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:19.140
It was like you just have to do something, so act, don't stand still talk about your books okay.
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:21.976
So yes, I'm a big fan of the traveler's gift by Andy Andrews.
00:28:21.976 --> 00:28:54.221
Typically, if I have a newer leader that's looking to really understand leadership, that is a recommendation I make because it's more on principles of decision making and leadership versus a structure or a model to follow, and I think that sometimes, especially newer in our careers, we can try to emulate other leaders that we see and then it becomes inauthentic, right, and so it's not genuine of who you are as an individual and I feel like the Andy Andrews work allows you to really be your authentic self and elevate your leadership style.
00:28:54.221 --> 00:29:07.118
But if I had to pinpoint kind of a life-changing book, I think I would actually go to Breaking the Glass Slipper, and so that was a book that I read summer of 23.
00:29:07.118 --> 00:29:27.561
And at that point we had, you know, made the decision that we were not going to take the organization that I was working for public and had started to kind of right size it for private capacity again versus for the run, and that, as you know, is monumentally difficult for me.
00:29:27.561 --> 00:29:34.531
I really saw that as a failure on my own part, that I couldn't get us quite across that finish line.
00:29:34.531 --> 00:29:59.919
We had approval and all of that, but market did not cooperate and we were on vacation and I read this book and the book really is about kind of being unapologetic for who you are and for making the decisions that are right for you right now and how that impacts your life, your family, your friends, your community, your work.
00:29:59.919 --> 00:30:10.201
And it was just, it was a book I needed in the moment and so I would say, if you're, you know, it is definitely written towards the female slant, I think it, you know, can definitely go both directions.
00:30:10.201 --> 00:30:18.460
But if you're kind of at that decision point of, well, what's next and should I or shouldn't I, it just gives a lot of different perspectives.
00:30:18.621 --> 00:30:29.355
And you know, going into that trip, um, I had made the decision that I was reducing to 50% of my time in my role and was going to be doing apex 50% of the time.
00:30:29.355 --> 00:30:41.122
And during that trip, when I finished my book, I came to you and I said I think I'm going to do 100% and so we had that shock value conversation.
00:30:41.122 --> 00:30:50.993
And then obviously I needed to have that conversation when I returned home and it just gave me that I can't even say confidence.
00:30:50.993 --> 00:30:56.637
It was more of a push because the safe decision was one foot in, one foot out, right.
00:30:56.637 --> 00:31:09.182
And the one foot in, one foot out wasn't going to lead to happiness, it wasn't going to lead to a change in behavior and it definitely kind of pushed me over the edge to say like you need to wake up and do something different.
00:31:09.182 --> 00:31:18.099
You know, conversations with our youngest son happened as well that were eye-opening and it was like okay, it's time to make a change.
00:31:18.099 --> 00:31:25.601
But I do credit that book for giving me maybe the courage is the right word to kind of make that jump.
00:31:25.601 --> 00:31:30.920
So I know we want to talk about failures and so maybe I'll just kind of transition into that because I touched on it.
00:31:33.611 --> 00:32:27.659
You know we all try to go after big things in life and you know some bigger than others, but for any one person it's as big as you feel, it is right, it's big to you and that's what matters, because you're sitting in your seat and you know, obviously, trying to IPO a company was big and I don't think anyone would argue with that and this one was in particularly large with the way in which we were structured and what we were doing and acquisitions and things are all happening at the same time and, as I mentioned earlier, I had no idea what I was doing and so learning and growing through all of that, you know we kind of made the decision mid-2022 that it probably wasn't real, feasible and I mean, if we're being candid I have to say it was probably early 2024 that I could talk about it not happening without being brought to tears.
00:32:27.659 --> 00:32:31.690
Yeah, and it was that real and that personal for me.
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:41.049
And you know, you put in the 90 hours a week for however long, and the grind and the sacrifices and all of that, and I would love to sit here and say, but I did all this work and then what happened?
00:32:41.049 --> 00:32:52.111
The work led to a great education, great teamwork, major strides, like there's a lot of success in all of that with the work.
00:32:52.111 --> 00:32:54.942
I don't even care that it was all the work.
00:32:54.942 --> 00:33:07.423
It there was a goal that wasn't achieved and in my mind and so like by definition, like that was failure and and in hindsight it was good and it was the right decision for the business and all of those kinds of things.
00:33:07.423 --> 00:33:15.300
But it took a really long time and I would, so I would actually now say my biggest failure wasn't that.
00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:35.473
My biggest failure was how I looked at the situation and for how long it took me to get back to a place where I didn't feel like I needed to like find what my next was or make up for it differently, and that I could just be good with what was and move on in a healthy way.
00:33:35.473 --> 00:33:42.074
And I mean, it probably took me like 18 months to really get to a good place after all of that.
00:33:42.074 --> 00:33:46.622
So you know sharing that, because we all have those moments, we have those things we're leading up to.
00:33:46.622 --> 00:33:55.605
You know, maybe you're thinking about doing an acquisition, maybe you're thinking about selling off a piece of your company or you're working through your exit strategy doing an acquisition, maybe you're thinking about selling off a piece of your company or you're working through your exit strategy.
00:33:55.625 --> 00:34:00.305
You might go through three, six, ten different things that don't work out.
00:34:00.305 --> 00:34:01.909
You're going to learn in each one.
00:34:01.909 --> 00:34:07.540
Your company is going to be better after each one, because you're constantly like cleaning things up and right-sizing and doing all of that.
00:34:07.540 --> 00:34:24.266
But don't forget to enjoy that part of the journey and to look at the journey as that um, just finished gap in the gain Right, and so keeping in that gain mindset and the progress versus what you were originally trying to achieve.
00:34:24.266 --> 00:34:27.402
Um, but allow yourself to be human too.
00:34:27.402 --> 00:34:39.586
You know we don't have to have it all together all the time, and when you're going that hard after something and you're putting that much effort into it, you know there is a cycle for getting through that and processing it.
00:34:39.586 --> 00:34:47.510
And just allow yourself that and don't think you're the only one and don't be shy in leaning in for others, you know, for support.
00:34:51.121 --> 00:34:59.510
That gave me time to think because I knew I was going to have the same question and I think that there wasn't a failure in there.
00:34:59.510 --> 00:35:01.568
I mean you did everything you needed to do.
00:35:01.568 --> 00:35:10.190
There were a lot of factors that went into the timing that really were the piece, and that's where you and I had a lot of conversations over that.
00:35:10.190 --> 00:35:17.532
Next, whether it was six months, 12 months, 18 months, wherever you got to the point where you can have that conversation about it.
00:35:17.532 --> 00:35:24.016
Thinking to mine, I don't know that I've ever done anything that big, so that I don't have a story that really compares to it.
00:35:24.016 --> 00:36:19.907
But I've got a couple of things that I've been thinking about, and one is kind of early on, when I started doing more training with TTI and made a couple international trips and got the hard feedback of it wasn't it may be okay to present like that in the United States, but it doesn't have the same level of professionalism for Europe that Europe needs and expects kind of a thing, and so digesting that and just kind of understanding what I needed to do to be a better speaker from that standpoint, which is one of the things I really do enjoy I think that was something that I learned a lot from of kind of saying, ok, where do I go from here, what do I need to do, so that I can in my mind it's what do I need to do so I can prove them wrong, that I am a good speaker, kind of a thing.
00:36:19.907 --> 00:36:28.753
So it's just a little bit of a thought process from there, but it turned into something that was very, I think, good long-term.
00:36:28.753 --> 00:36:53.851
The other one is learning to fail fast and accept that it's not working in reverse course, and I don't even remember what it was, but there was something that I was driving hard through TTI, that I wanted to make this change and it was going to be good for the organization and for consultants involved and everybody, and I think it was maybe two weeks in.
00:36:53.851 --> 00:37:13.773
It was just not going the way I thought it would and so it was like reverse it, let's go, I will, I will take the fall for this and just kind of seeing the positivity of everybody from making that quick change and learning to fail fast versus just keep beating the dead horse, so to speak.
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:27.887
I think those are a couple things, and now I can utilize those kinds of things in conversations, in coaching conversations, in those kinds of areas to help the light bulbs and things come on.
00:37:27.887 --> 00:37:31.190
You had mentioned earlier about you like to see the light bulbs come on.
00:37:31.190 --> 00:37:41.273
And I was actually in a coaching conversation one morning and we were talking about doing it yourself versus involving your team.
00:37:41.273 --> 00:37:46.789
And it's like he said to me but the team doesn't ever offer any solutions.
00:00:02.185 --> 00:00:11.231
00:00:11.231 --> 00:00:21.611
00:00:21.611 --> 00:00:26.551
00:00:29.861 --> 00:00:31.044
00:00:31.044 --> 00:00:35.561
00:00:35.561 --> 00:00:38.874
00:00:38.874 --> 00:01:00.722
00:01:00.722 --> 00:01:06.275
00:01:06.296 --> 00:01:08.462
00:01:08.462 --> 00:01:15.483
00:01:15.483 --> 00:01:16.944
00:01:16.944 --> 00:01:20.953
00:01:20.953 --> 00:01:44.611
00:01:44.611 --> 00:02:01.337
00:02:02.578 --> 00:02:39.469
00:02:39.469 --> 00:02:54.403
00:02:54.403 --> 00:03:01.546
00:03:01.546 --> 00:03:19.271
00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:26.687
00:03:26.687 --> 00:03:34.449
00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:36.824
00:03:36.824 --> 00:03:42.629
00:03:42.629 --> 00:03:46.145
00:03:46.145 --> 00:03:52.389
00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:59.245
00:03:59.245 --> 00:04:15.932
00:04:15.932 --> 00:04:23.302
00:04:23.343 --> 00:04:34.444
00:04:34.444 --> 00:04:38.613
00:04:38.613 --> 00:04:53.653
00:04:53.653 --> 00:05:21.721
00:05:21.781 --> 00:05:38.605
00:05:38.605 --> 00:06:02.504
00:06:02.524 --> 00:06:20.391
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:26.744
00:06:26.744 --> 00:06:29.449
00:06:29.449 --> 00:06:48.586
00:06:48.586 --> 00:07:02.651
00:07:02.651 --> 00:07:08.771
00:07:08.771 --> 00:07:09.894
00:07:09.894 --> 00:07:13.067
00:07:13.067 --> 00:07:18.110
00:07:18.630 --> 00:07:25.288
00:07:25.288 --> 00:07:38.367
00:07:38.367 --> 00:07:41.519
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.745
00:07:46.286 --> 00:07:51.254
00:07:51.254 --> 00:07:52.922
00:07:52.922 --> 00:07:56.913
00:07:56.913 --> 00:08:07.923
00:08:07.923 --> 00:08:32.729
00:08:32.729 --> 00:08:42.885
00:08:43.847 --> 00:08:54.712
00:08:54.712 --> 00:08:57.445
00:08:57.445 --> 00:09:16.248
00:09:16.248 --> 00:09:35.652
00:09:35.652 --> 00:09:44.754
00:09:44.754 --> 00:09:50.802
00:09:50.822 --> 00:09:55.110
00:09:55.110 --> 00:10:25.350
00:10:25.350 --> 00:10:51.735
00:10:51.735 --> 00:10:54.663
00:10:54.743 --> 00:11:04.224
00:11:04.224 --> 00:11:17.833
00:11:18.355 --> 00:11:35.331
00:11:35.331 --> 00:11:55.293
00:11:55.293 --> 00:11:57.544
00:11:57.544 --> 00:12:10.349
00:12:10.349 --> 00:12:11.783
00:12:11.783 --> 00:12:13.529
00:12:15.581 --> 00:12:22.109
00:12:22.109 --> 00:12:26.205
00:12:26.205 --> 00:12:32.061
00:12:32.061 --> 00:12:37.155
00:12:37.155 --> 00:12:51.783
00:12:51.783 --> 00:12:53.355
00:12:54.211 --> 00:12:55.455
00:12:56.076 --> 00:13:00.798
00:13:00.798 --> 00:13:06.634
00:13:06.634 --> 00:13:09.679
00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:11.202
00:13:11.202 --> 00:13:12.272
00:13:12.272 --> 00:13:16.541
00:13:16.541 --> 00:13:23.615
00:13:23.615 --> 00:13:30.153
00:13:30.153 --> 00:13:45.721
00:13:45.721 --> 00:13:50.456
00:13:50.456 --> 00:13:51.798
00:13:51.798 --> 00:13:52.782
00:13:52.782 --> 00:13:53.533
00:13:53.533 --> 00:13:55.162
00:13:55.162 --> 00:13:56.649
00:13:57.932 --> 00:14:08.451
00:14:08.451 --> 00:14:18.533
00:14:18.533 --> 00:14:23.423
00:14:23.423 --> 00:14:23.610
00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:38.086
00:14:38.086 --> 00:14:42.214
00:14:42.234 --> 00:14:48.360
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.496
00:14:51.496 --> 00:14:56.357
00:14:56.357 --> 00:14:56.899
00:14:56.899 --> 00:14:57.942
00:14:57.942 --> 00:15:29.153
00:15:29.274 --> 00:15:41.558
00:15:41.558 --> 00:15:46.361
00:15:46.361 --> 00:15:52.342
00:15:52.342 --> 00:15:58.841
00:15:58.961 --> 00:16:19.971
00:16:19.971 --> 00:16:36.167
00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:40.442
00:16:40.442 --> 00:16:43.558
00:16:43.558 --> 00:16:46.620
00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:58.365
00:16:58.365 --> 00:17:09.344
00:17:09.730 --> 00:17:12.479
00:17:12.479 --> 00:17:17.153
00:17:17.153 --> 00:17:24.920
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:35.023
00:17:35.023 --> 00:17:42.320
00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:47.921
00:17:47.921 --> 00:17:55.423
00:17:55.423 --> 00:17:58.413
00:17:58.413 --> 00:18:01.501
00:18:01.501 --> 00:18:09.304
00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:37.039
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:56.461
00:18:56.461 --> 00:19:12.862
00:19:12.862 --> 00:19:17.821
00:19:17.821 --> 00:19:34.105
00:19:34.105 --> 00:19:53.140
00:19:53.140 --> 00:20:00.881
00:20:00.881 --> 00:20:10.955
00:20:12.157 --> 00:20:36.534
00:20:36.534 --> 00:20:40.482
00:20:40.482 --> 00:20:47.348
00:20:47.348 --> 00:21:04.207
00:21:04.207 --> 00:21:24.335
00:21:24.335 --> 00:21:28.237
00:21:28.237 --> 00:21:33.662
00:21:33.662 --> 00:21:38.000
00:21:38.101 --> 00:21:58.138
00:21:58.138 --> 00:22:08.772
00:22:08.772 --> 00:22:18.719
00:22:18.719 --> 00:22:22.833
00:22:22.833 --> 00:22:31.215
00:22:31.215 --> 00:22:40.461
00:22:40.970 --> 00:22:51.544
00:22:51.544 --> 00:23:04.259
00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:05.301
00:23:05.301 --> 00:23:20.530
00:23:20.530 --> 00:23:21.614
00:23:21.614 --> 00:23:24.539
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.493
00:23:27.493 --> 00:23:30.029
00:23:30.029 --> 00:23:40.923
00:23:40.923 --> 00:23:47.342
00:23:47.342 --> 00:23:49.913
00:23:50.375 --> 00:23:59.323
00:23:59.323 --> 00:24:08.175
00:24:08.175 --> 00:24:22.023
00:24:22.023 --> 00:24:26.388
00:24:26.388 --> 00:24:32.525
00:24:32.525 --> 00:24:34.384
00:24:34.384 --> 00:24:36.268
00:24:36.688 --> 00:24:40.295
00:24:40.295 --> 00:24:44.763
00:24:44.763 --> 00:24:55.500
00:24:55.500 --> 00:25:01.942
00:25:01.961 --> 00:25:23.060
00:25:23.060 --> 00:25:29.853
00:25:29.853 --> 00:25:34.522
00:25:34.522 --> 00:25:41.660
00:25:44.010 --> 00:25:47.837
00:25:47.837 --> 00:25:53.109
00:25:53.109 --> 00:26:07.660
00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:16.861
00:26:18.913 --> 00:26:30.678
00:26:30.678 --> 00:26:41.951
00:26:41.951 --> 00:26:49.391
00:26:49.391 --> 00:26:59.400
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:07.686
00:27:08.047 --> 00:27:08.227
00:27:08.650 --> 00:27:18.502
00:27:18.502 --> 00:27:35.852
00:27:35.852 --> 00:27:38.137
00:27:38.137 --> 00:27:49.215
00:27:49.395 --> 00:28:03.994
00:28:03.994 --> 00:28:07.842
00:28:07.842 --> 00:28:13.240
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:19.140
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:21.976
00:28:21.976 --> 00:28:54.221
00:28:54.221 --> 00:29:07.118
00:29:07.118 --> 00:29:27.561
00:29:27.561 --> 00:29:34.531
00:29:34.531 --> 00:29:59.919
00:29:59.919 --> 00:30:10.201
00:30:10.201 --> 00:30:18.460
00:30:18.621 --> 00:30:29.355
00:30:29.355 --> 00:30:41.122
00:30:41.122 --> 00:30:50.993
00:30:50.993 --> 00:30:56.637
00:30:56.637 --> 00:31:09.182
00:31:09.182 --> 00:31:18.099
00:31:18.099 --> 00:31:25.601
00:31:25.601 --> 00:31:30.920
00:31:33.611 --> 00:32:27.659
00:32:27.659 --> 00:32:31.690
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:41.049
00:32:41.049 --> 00:32:52.111
00:32:52.111 --> 00:32:54.942
00:32:54.942 --> 00:33:07.423
00:33:07.423 --> 00:33:15.300
00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:35.473
00:33:35.473 --> 00:33:42.074
00:33:42.074 --> 00:33:46.622
00:33:46.622 --> 00:33:55.605
00:33:55.625 --> 00:34:00.305
00:34:00.305 --> 00:34:01.909
00:34:01.909 --> 00:34:07.540
00:34:07.540 --> 00:34:24.266
00:34:24.266 --> 00:34:27.402
00:34:27.402 --> 00:34:39.586
00:34:39.586 --> 00:34:47.510
00:34:51.121 --> 00:34:59.510
00:34:59.510 --> 00:35:01.568
00:35:01.568 --> 00:35:10.190
00:35:10.190 --> 00:35:17.532
00:35:17.532 --> 00:35:24.016
00:35:24.016 --> 00:36:19.907
00:36:19.907 --> 00:36:28.753
00:36:28.753 --> 00:36:53.851
00:36:53.851 --> 00:37:13.773
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:27.887
00:37:27.887 --> 00:37:31.190
00:37:31.190 --> 00:37:41.273
00:37:41.273 --> 00:37:46.789